Rob Sullivan - RUINER. The Rob Sullivan Zine

Ruiner has been a band for half a decade and are on the verge of releasing their second LP, “Hell is Empty,” on Bridge 9 records. I sat down with Rob at his house to interview him while eating some hotdogs and other stuff. It is important to note that Harry Potter was playing on TV at the start of the interview.

Rob: …We’re going to have to change this or we’re not going to get anything done cause I’m going to want to watch it.

Phil: I think the first thing you mentioned to me about the new music is that its way better than “Prepare to be Let Down.” I think the common perception for “Prepare to be Let Down” is that it’s not as good as your 7 inch. How do you feel about that album?

Rob: I’m not the biggest fan of that record, No. I like songs off of it fine. There are certain songs I like a lot, and you can tell which ones, cause its the ones we play more. A lot of times, I feel we played it safer with that record… yea, seriously we’re going to have to change this. You’re not going to get anything from me if this stays on. (Changes it to Semi-Pro) I feel like some of the songs are safer in the sense that they were not as loose. With the EP – I don’t want to say it had more of a punk vibe and sound stupid; but I guess that’s the way to describe it. Definitely more structure in Prepare, and I kind of dislike that, cause the structure was very mechanical and I wasn’t into it. I also think there are songs off Prepare that sound like other bands, and I don’t enjoy that, and I hate my voice on it with a passion because I did those vocals way too early in the morning everyday, and because of time constraints and shit, when I was saying I wanted to do them later, we couldn’t, and when push came to shove, and it was like oh shit, we need to get this done, my voice was blown out, and it was cold as fuck where we were, so that didn’t help my voice either. There are also songs on it that I don’t like cause I wrote them about other people, and I kind of feel like I outgrew what I felt about those things really quickly, and I don’t like playing those songs, and that has a lot to do with it too. Like “Song for the Beggars,” I really don’t like that song at all. I feel like a fucking asshole for writing it. I wrote it at a time when I was scorned, and I sort of outgrew that feeling really quickly. I kind of just felt like a dick afterwards. Even though I do enjoy the music to the song.

Phil: When you mentioned sounding like other bands, it reminded me of something you told me, that you haven’t been really stoked on a band since the Suicide File. I’m guessing you think what’s popular in hardcore today isn’t too original. Is that something you expect in hardcore? Bands just sounding like a certain style.

Rob: What do you mean?

Phil: Well, I can say that Ruiner isn’t the most popular band, because you’re currently not following what is trendy. If you go to California on a tour by yourselves, there wouldn’t be like 100 people there…

Rob: …Actually, we do really well in California…But I understand what you’re trying to say. There are plenty of places we play that we totally tank out on.

Phil: That’s not what I’m trying to say…

Rob: … No, it’s true. This is how it works. This is how you can judge how popular a band is. Is it hype or is it actually popularity? Can they do well in Chicago? If a band can do well in Chicago, they can do well anywhere. If a band does awesome in California or Boston, it really isn’t that impressive, because that’s a common occurrence (for the most part). We can play California and have a couple hundred kids there fucking stoked. We can play Boston and no one gives a shit about us at all, and then we can play Chicago and there will be like fifty kids there stoked. We can play the Fest each year, its fucking awesome; but if we play like a hardcore fest in a surrounding city, it would be like oh that was cool, some kids were into it. I don’t understand and I don’t care. I don’t know if I actually answered your question…

Phil: Well, what I was originally getting at before we spun into this was that have you grown discouraged over unoriginality in hardcore? I know you don’t give a fuck…

Rob: ... I don’t give a fuck over whether anyone likes us at all. I mean, I definitely appreciate it, but at the same time, I kind of had to grow to appreciate it cause I don’t think I was always concerned about it and than when it became apparent that maybe I was taking some of it for granted, I was like, hmm… maybe I should care. I always cared about it here, but I never cared about it anywhere else, and I think sometimes I was a dick for that reason. But in a sense of discouraged, I don’t really like anything. I was thinking about that today, about what that feeling is like for other people. I feel certain age groups have that band that hit them a certain way. You’re supposed to get affected by certain bands, and each age bracket has their own. I can see where some of my friends and some of your friends got affected that way earlier by Gorilla Biscuits or got affected that way by a variety of bands I can’t even think of. With the Suicide File, when I saw them, I was really stoked and was like fuck, this band actually conveys shit I’m into. I felt that way with Bane, I felt that way with American Nightmare, I felt that way with tons of bands, but the last time I could remember that feeling happening is Suicide File, and then I haven’t really cared about anyone after that. I mean, I get stoked on certain local bands, or seeing bands I’m friends with, or seeing bands on tour, but for the most part, the shit I liked when I was fifteen is still the shit I really like, and in the sense of hardcore, nothing really gets to me. And sometimes I just don’t get some of the bands that are really popular, cause I’m like wow; this band is really bad. Like, they’re really bad on so many levels that it amazes me that kids actually like them. I don’t consider us a very talented band. I don’t consider the musicianship in my band amazing or anything like that and at the end of the day, I think we just hold a very strong work ethic, but I know we’re capable of playing our instruments and sometimes I watch bands and am just like: you people jock the shit out of a band who seriously barely comprehend what they’re doing, and on top of that, are boring as fuck because they just go through the motions playing contrived songs they feel are appropriate to write for this genre of music.

Phil: Since you’re not really stoked on a lot of hardcore, and in Baltimore you book the majority of shows, do you just do that for everyone else’s benefit or for the bands benefit?

Rob: I don’t really like show trades. I don’t ever swing that shit when I’m booking a tour. If I’m free, I’ll help a band out because I know how it feels to not get a show in a town and to be fucked. Sometimes - maybe it’s karma - I want to help out a band cause I don’t want to be stranded one day when that shit comes around; I don’t know. That sounds kind of dumb. I try to help everyone. If I’m on tour, and even if I’m not into the music, but I’m into them, and they ask for help, I’ll help them out. I’ve also been doing shows for so long that it’s become a habit I can’t break. I’ve tried a couple of times to be like I’m not doing anymore shows, and then I just start doing them again, because I either think other people aren’t capable of doing them or someone isn’t there to do it. It’s not even a matter of “that guy can’t do a show properly,” its just that no one else is available, I’m willing to get a venue, and do all the businessy crap involved. The thing is, I think it’s not a matter of not being interested in hardcore per say, I think it’s a matter of not being impressed, because I like tons of bands. There’s demos I’ll grab at shows or some kid will give to me and I’ll think the band is awesome and give it an actual listen. And it’s not a matter of me thinking this is fucking terrible, it’s just like ok, this is good, but it’s not anything new, I’ve heard it before and how much do I like it. Do I really need to like this band that much? Is there something about them that is grabbing me? The biggest problem is that I don’t relate to many people, at least I don’t feel like it now, and a seventeen year old kid who’s demo I just got and I think the band is awesome, but lyrically, if I can relate to you at seventeen I feel kind of shitty for myself (laughs).

Phil: The connection between hardcore and the Internet always has the common thread of who’s feuding with who. For example, locally there was the TUI/Soul Control beef. Today, Soul Control can play Baltimore, but no one will come out, and it’s not necessarily because of the music or anything, it’s because of an isolated incident between a member who’s not in the band anymore. How do you feel about that and the social politics of hardcore?

Rob: It bums me the fuck out. The politics of hardcore are the dumbest most immature thing in this subculture. I have definitely gotten swallowed up by it in the past but I don’t think anyone has the right to tell fucking anyone they can’t play somewhere. If you don’t want to book a band, don’t fucking book a band. If you want to ban them from your city, that’s just fucking stupid. I’m not going to speak on the situation you were talking about. I saw it happen, its rather unimportant. I think it’s fucking dumb. Whether, in that situation, it’s because of old members or not, it’s still stupid. I don’t think any band should be able to tell you, “Oh, you can’t book them because I have a problem with them.” Then don’t fucking come to the show. Don’t come to the show and tell your friends not to come to the show. Big fucking deal. They’re not going to show up to your house, so who fucking cares? Case and point that’s not even beef, Integrity: super fucking popular band now. There was a point in time when they weren’t even allowed to play Baltimore because of shit like that, and now people don’t even fucking remember that or they’ve let it go. There are lots of dudes that get plenty of hate, and eventually someone will be like, no man, its cool, it’s squashed now. When I have an issue with someone, I directly address it with them, especially if I’ve heard they have a problem with me and they don’t want to talk to me about it. I’ve never had an issue where it’s come to a fight, and I’ve had issues with some of the most volatile fucking people that consider themselves involved in hardcore. Dudes who are well known for banning you from their city, beating the fuck out of you, getting you jumped, all of those things. I have addressed them in a one on one manner of: what is your problem with me or what did I do or what did I not realize I did or whatever it is that we have an issue over? What needs to be done to either settle this or not settle and know where we stand? Cause if that’s how it’s going to be, I want to know. I think that’s part of the problem too. People are either too quick to want to punch somebody and not quick enough to just say “Hey. You. Fuckhead. Let’s talk about this.” I’m not saying sit down and fucking have a tea party, but I think two people, regardless of the situation, when you take away all the background noise, when you take out all the friends running their mouths, or all the people who want to blow up the egos or do whatever and involve themselves, even the most Neanderthal fucking ape can go, “Alright, this is my fucking problem. I don’t like you and this is why I don’t fucking like you,” then a rebuttal, and then so forth and so on, and eventually two mature semi intelligent individuals can come to some sort of understand of, “Alright, cool. We don’t like each other, and that’s how it’s going to be, but now we know. You stay the fuck out of my way; I’ll stay the fuck out of yours.” That’s life. Sadly, that’s not how it always works. People want to ban people or tell them they can’t do this or can’t do that, blah blah blah blah blah, and they have no right to do that.

Phil: Ruiner tends to be associated with being pricks or being assholes because of certain events that occurred. I’m going to address these one by one so you can perhaps clear the air and put the Internet on halt. First and foremost, let’s talk Todd Jones.

Rob: Ok, I’ll just address two at once, because I’m guessing your next one is 1917, which if we went chronologically we’d have to start. We were on 1917 and we were playing Sound and Fury. I on stage, after a very long tour, said a bunch of shit that I rambled through, and to most of the crowd probably sounded like utter fucking jibberish because – I would probably say I’m getting better at it now- I fumble through everything I say on stage sometimes. I think I actually talk better drunk. On this occasion, I was trying to speak on the fact that there were a lot of issues and a lot of beef and a lot of dumb shit that surrounded Sound and Fury the first year. It wasn’t important to anyone. I should not have brought it up; however, it did bother me. So, I brought it up and said that there were a lot of bands that could have or should have played and I said something about in a subculture that is already so hard to keep together and we let all this stupid beef get in the way and fuck everything up and we can’t just squash it and let things die and I talked about the bands I was addressing. Looking back, where my wording was bad was the fact that I said should have and I addressed in a manner as if I was saying “you should have put them on here.” I had no right to say that, and I will admit that, and I admitted it then. It was their fest and they can pick whoever the fuck they want. The issue is, 1917 and Todd Jones did the fest and other people involved took offense to it because I brought up their issues and they didn’t want their shit out in the open, which is fine. Some people are like that – I’m not. I brought it up, we argued, us and 1917 were fine, it was settled. We were still on the label and Prepare was still going to come out on 1917. In the course of the next couple of weeks of dealing with the situation because in doing that, I brought up the bands names and stuff and it caused more issues. Some people brought it up to 1917 and pissed them off. I think every time someone brought it up to them they got more pissed off. I spent the next couple of weeks trying to explain myself until finally I got a call from Todd, who me and him had it out and just argued about my right to say something and how I shouldn’t have. And that’s when things got worse because I don’t do well with someone telling me I’m not allowed to say something or who the fuck am I to say anything. This was a long time ago, I don’t give a fuck about it now, I’m sure he doesn’t give a fuck about it, grant if he read this, maybe he would, I don’t fucking know nor do I care; but, he took offense to it, we exchanged our words, we pissed each other off, phone call ends, we’re still writing for Prepare, and I write this song about the situation pretty much saying: I fumble through what I say and I stick my foot in my mouth and I’ll pay the consequences for it, but no one is going to tell me I can’t say what I think. I think that applies to every fucking person on the planet, cause I don’t think anyone should not be able to say what they want; but, you’ve got to be willing to go through some shit for it, and we did. I haven’t talked to him or Riley (Owns 1917 records) in a really long time. Me and Riley were on a really business kind of relationship, I have nothing against him. When that song came out, it bothered him that it was on there, cause Todd is one of his close friends and we made the choice to leave the label. We owed them money, they owed us money, we each paid up in a matter of days and that was that. What happened after was us announcing we were off the label and we have this record done and need somewhere to put it out. Bridge 9 immediately said they’d do it. A lot of people were bothered by it at the time, and they had a lot things to say to Bridge 9, and Bridge 9 never swayed, they were like no, we’re going to do this. And the thing was, from numbers of record sales and blah blah blah, Bridge 9 knew we weren’t a cash cow. We weren’t a band who was hyped enough to be able to bankroll other bands. They liked our work ethic, that’s why they wanted us, that’s why we went there. We have an amazing relationship with that label now and in the grand scheme of things, everything worked out for the best. Now, people don’t get the story straight – whatever. There was a ton of other stuff that happened in the process of going to Bridge 9 of shit talk and some people being offended at the idea of us being on there, but it is what it is now and its over and I really don’t care. I’m sure if I see Todd now, we’d probably either not look in each other’s direction or we just wouldn’t care. I have no issue with him. Shit happens; I know I was offended. Hopefully, by now, he understands why I was mad at what he said to me, and that’s that for that story.

Phil: And addressing a local situation, talk about what happened with Trapped Under Ice.

Rob: I don’t think this actually made it to the Internet. I’ve randomly seen things about it, but for the most part, I don’t think it ever made it to the Internet. I know people ask me about it locally. That story kind of sucks overall. There are so many issues I have with that. I’m not trying to favor anyone in this story. I don’t want to make myself look better; I don’t want to make him look better or worse. It’s a massive clash of two personalities that have known each other way too fucking long. So, we do this weekend. First off, Justice had been asking me for a while to take them out on a weekend. We finally got the chance to and we did. I will say on record that I don’t like their band. I never liked their band. This isn’t me shit talking. It’s not my thing. If anyone knows me, it should be very apparent. I’ve known Justice my whole fucking life, and I’ve supported everything that dude’s ever done, but I always gave him a hard fucking time, and I will totally admit that. During the weekend, some issues I had were if I said, “you had to be here at this time,” they’d be late. It happened the first show. Shit happens; you get stuck in traffic. Me and Justice butt heads on a lot of things, and we always have, and if we ever talk again, I’m sure we fucking will. We played the first show and everything was cool. I think where this stemmed from, what made this entire weekend bad was Karl Bridge 9 asked about Trapped Under Ice. He asked me what do you think, you know them. I said, and I told them this, that I think a lot of kids are into them, but give them some time; let them do a U.S. tour, cause at that point, I know they toured, but they haven’t done a full U.S., they haven’t gone out for an entire month – I know they did a some weeks here and there and some shit with Mongoloids – but they were still switching members in and out. They didn’t have a bassist at the time; they had people fake acting like they were playing bass, which was funny. So, I tell him (Justice) this, and I could tell then he got pretty offended. I guess he thought why wouldn’t you just tell him we were ready, that we wanted to go, and later when we argued, that came out that he felt that way. I don’t do things like that. If my friends are doing well and I can help them, I’ll help them, but to the level that I think a band is ready for, I’m not going to push them up any further then that. I didn’t think at the time Trapped Under Ice should be pushed that far cause they hadn’t done that much. At that time, they were just talk and fucking hype – at the end of the day at that point they were hype. Why that’s a bad word I don’t fucking know.

Phil: Its because hype reflects a band that has no substance. It reflects a band that got big off the internet off a demo or a 7 inch or something and really hasn’t worked that hard, whether it be writing or touring, to get all the talk they are getting.

Rob: That’s the thing with that word, people take it as offense, but really – I told them, I remember sitting there talking to Ben when he was still playing drums, and I said, “you will hit a point when you’re doing this because you love it, you will have to do it, and it’s a matter of how hard it is. Why are you still in a band? Cause the hype goes away. We had it for a minute, not like fucking Trapped Under Ice, but we had it and kids were talking about us, and that’s how it works and eventually it goes away. It comes down to shit or get off the pot. How much can you take as a band? What are willing to go through? What are you willing to put up with?” So I’m telling him this and we play the show and everything is cool, and I think it got to Justice over the weekend, the fact that I said that and I didn’t try to blow up his band to Bridge 9, maybe it didn’t, but he definitely led me to believe that later on. So, come New York, the first issue was, if I book a show for a person or I take them out somewhere and I say this is when you’re playing or this is what’s going on, that’s what I expect. They were running late, they couldn’t play first, the dude who booked the show wanted them to play first, Trapped Under Ice wasn’t ok with that. I and he exchanged words over that; which, for the record, I agree with. I don’t think a band from out of state should play first, especially if there’s a local involved; however, if a promoter says something, it’s pretty much law cause that guy is doing you a favor. So I see both sides of the coin there, but I usually side with the promoter in most degrees, especially if it’s a kid cause that’s the guy who’s putting up with all the shit. So, when we got asked to play the show on that weekend, the kid wanted us to play last. I told him right then and there when I saw the lineup: Why? Cause it was Mongoloids, Cruel Hand, Trapped Under Ice, Trash Talk. I knew we weren’t going to fit well; it’s not our thing. We don’t do good in New York City ever. We had a few shows there that were awesome, but for the most part, when we play hardcore shows there they don’t go well. So, every band plays, kids are going nuts, we’re last, majority of people leave, and this is where it all went bad. Actually before that, there was some awkwardness outside that happened that I kind of got the vibe that Justice was mad at me for what I said or felt that I low balled him, I don’t know. We play and I make a bunch of jokes. Now downstairs is Cruel Hand and miscellaneous people that are hanging out. Everyone else for the most part is upstairs. Trapped Under Ice comes down while we’re playing, and then they all leave. I noticed that while we’re playing, and it was right after I said something. The first thing I said was, “I don’t give a shit who’s down here, you’re going to get the same band regardless.” I’ve said that a million times probably, and it’s true. I don’t care. I don’t give a fuck if kids are singing along. I don’t care if there are a hundred kids in the room or four. It’s the same band regardless. I don’t get bummed out when people aren’t fucking watching my band. That’s kids shit. Grow up. But I was making jokes about the fact that, for the most part, no one was downstairs. Bands were upstairs, it happens, I don’t give a fuck. Actually, the thing I said was, “I wasn’t downstairs watching everyone else’s band, so if you don’t like a band, stay the fuck upstairs, it doesn’t matter.” I know people heard that from upstairs thought I was talking shit on them. Too fucking bad, I wasn’t. That was the first fucking thing I said in our breaks, we always do things in three or fours – one of the first things I said was, “I don’t care who’s upstairs. I don’t like every fucking band that played tonight. I’m not going to watch you either.” That was taken as some sort of offense, but all it was, hey if you’re upstairs right now, I feel the same way. You don’t like my band; I don’t like your band. Who gives a fuck? It doesn’t mean you have to like everyone’s band. You don’t have to support everyone. It’s fucking stupid. It makes no sense. Just because you played with someone, and even if you respect them as a peer – as a fellow musician or however the fuck you want to put it – does not mean you have to like them/watch them. So, we play on, and the second little break I say, “Give it up to Trapped Under Ice, yadayadayada, don’t let that hype train get away. Don’t miss out on that.” And I guess that was taken as if I was being shitty. I wasn’t because, eventually they were going to be a legit band. They were going to have their shit together, like they are right now, and they are going to be a real fucking band. Some kids who are there are going to miss out on that, and that’s what I meant by it, and I guess that’s not what Justice heard, and they left. I get done, and I exchange some detailed long words with someone else playing that night. I go upstairs and there was definitely a really weird vibe going on. I go up to Greg Mongoloids and I ask if there was some issue that I missed and he said he didn’t know what’s up. I said the same thing to Lee from Trash Talk and he said “Nah man, but you should probably talk to Justice.” So, we’re leaving and I handle some other weird shit -The whole show had this strange fucking vibe, and I’m sure I helped put that on us from making comments, but the comments I made are the same kind of shit I always say, and I think the biggest problem is that no one got the sarcasm or the joke, and I’m guilty as anyone else, cause sometimes you just don’t realize that someone is joking. So I talked to everybody and I understood what was wrong there. Shit happens; I don’t really care that much. I text Justice and said if there’s something you want to talk about, we need to talk, and he calls me and we just go at it. Years of pent up aggression towards each other is spewing out on the phone between the two of us and it kind of sucked. I think both of us said a whole bunch of shit we didn’t entirely mean and we said a bunch of shit we fucking meant and wished we said earlier. When it was all said and done, we just both kind of said later and it was over. When we see each other now, its pretty much just head nods and stuff like that and we don’t really engage at all, which sucks a lot. I picked him up from middle school for band practice when I was in high school, we wrestled together, and I pulled him out of fights when he was a little kid. The kid that I knew then is not the kid I know now and maybe I don’t agree with how his band does their business and maybe he doesn’t agree with how my band does my business – whatever. I don’t care. That’s life. You meet a lot of fucking people in this world that you will grow old with and you will know they’re going to be your friends forever, and you meet a lot of people that you realize that chances are your not going to be able to tolerate them for your entire life and they’re not as close as you think they could be or you want them to be, and in the end, you end up just becoming two people who just pass each other by in the hall way. Is it depressing? It’s very fucking depressing, but that’s how shit works. It bums me out about Justice, but he’s doing his thing, good for him. I have no resentment towards his band being popular. I’m glad they’re working. I’m glad they’re doing what they’re doing. Whether I like his band or not is neither here nor there. I still hold a level of respect for them.

Phil: Your new song addresses the fact that the majority of popular bands today usually don’t speak what’s on their mind or that they try to stay as politically correct as possible so they don’t offend anyone else, whether it be another band, promoter, whatever. Why do you think bands today are like that?

Rob: It’s not even PC anymore. There are bands who I watch that started the same time Ruiner did, or the same time my old bands did. I watched them become bands, I watched them become huge, and I watched them become untouchable, literally un-fucking-touchable. They could go on stage and seriously probably say faggot, nigger, every other fucking word that no one should be saying, and they MIGHT get crucified for it, maybe, possibly. Chances are they wouldn’t cause that’s how hard kids hang from them. That’s how far their dick is down the throats of some of these kids. And it pisses me off cause those are the fucking bands that don’t say anything and it’s part of the reason they are who they are, because they spend the entire time making sure they don’t make anyone mad. When they’ve gotten in trouble, when they’ve done something wrong, when they were fucking around being fun and having that vibe of “we’re on tour, fuck who whom we’re staying with. Let’s wreck their house and steal their shit,” it’s totally cool to be a dick, but when it comes down to our friends get kicked off this, our friends aren’t allowed to do this, “oh, we’ll just keep our mouths shut cause we don’t want to rock the boat. It has nothing really to do with us.” Fuck that, it has everything to do with you. You’re the only people who can fucking say anything. Me getting up on stage and saying “Hey… fuck whoever’s doing this,” is not a big deal to anyone. If I’m in the position to help someone, fuck it, I’ll try to do it. I’ll especially do it if I know I can help, chances are I can’t cause everyone views it as, “Rob’s a fucking asshole. This is how he acts. He’s a dick. This is his character. This is his shtick.” If it wasn’t me, and it was someone else standing up there saying it, someone who maybe took a more positive approach to stage banter, everyone would be like, “he’s right, these guys probably are fucked up.” And that kid wouldn’t get beat up, that guy standing on stage wouldn’t be made an example of because that’s how much power those bands have. And it sucks, cause those bands don’t ever do that; that’s why they’re those bands. They’ve never taken the chance to fucking stand up or take a risk. There’s so much shit that happens behind the scenes, which is a stupid fucking way to put it but it’s true. So much shit that kids don’t know that happens at fucking fests and shows and on tours and the politics that go along with all this dumb shit that no one is going to fucking talk about because it’s going to fuck them over for some other show they want, some tour they want, some fest they want to play, or some label they want to be cool with. None of this shit is ever going to be put out into the open because of shit like that. Whatever, sorry you can’t book your own tours and your manager doesn’t think you should rock the boat he or she still needs a back to scratch.

Phil: You guys have been together for five years and I’ve noticed locally that the draw is getting a little thinner then it use to be. (Rob starts laughing) How does that make you feel when the draw is a little thinner?

Rob: It makes sense; I don’t care. I remember one of my friends brought up the fact that when we played one of the Circle Pit fests, the first thing out of my mouth was “You’ve seen us before, thanks for staying.” I guess someone said that it was kind of a dickhead thing to say, but it’s true. I mean it. I’m stoked. If there’s 40 kids at the artspace, 20 kids at the artspace, and they’ve seen us 100 times, I’m happy for that. Are we going to bring in new kids from Baltimore? I don’t know. Maybe this new record will come out and some kid who hated Prepare will give us a second chance. I like being well received at home because I believe that you can judge a band’s character with how they’re received at home. If a band tanks out in their hometown, there’s probably a good reason for it. They’re probably all bastards, they don’t care about anyone else in their own scene, and that’s why I care about it. Knowing that people are coming to our shows is part of the reason that I like doing shows. I think it’s an important thing for any band, to be able to know kids. There’s kids that make me awkward, there’s kids I don’t like talking to. I don’t like the fan boy weirdness. I don’t like when people talk to me and come up with an awkward” Hey man… I just wanted to say…” Just stop. Please don’t say anything else. If you want to say what’s up man, or you guys were awesome, cool. Please god, don’t tell me how I affected your life. I understand; I’ve been there. I’ve been the awkward kid who tells the band that, and let me tell you, it’s weird and we don’t know how to deal with it. I think that’s why I like being home cause everyone knows me and the kids at shows are my friends. I like hanging out, I don’t like engaging people for very long. But, I think when kids really fucking stop caring; it will also mean that we don’t care. Will we end it then? I don’t know, it probably won’t be that long after. I also think overall, one thing I’ve dealt with since playing in bands, Baltimore is a city people leave. They get old enough, they want to see something else, they go to New York, they go to Philadelphia, they go to California, and they get out of the city. And then they usually end up coming back because the rest of the world fucking sucks just as much as it does here, and people suck, and there’s no fucking difference. “Oh man, there’s nothing cool to do here anymore,” Well guess what? The fucking rest of the world is just as miserable as you are. Chances are you won’t be happy anywhere else because its you, its not the rest of the world or Baltimore, you just aren’t happy. And that’s why one day I’ll be living in the woods in a territory in Canada hunting bear like the Incredible Hulk.

Phil: What you said about Baltimore I wanted to address. This kind of hit me at the Hammer Bros show I did. One of the guys who came with Hammer Bros was moshing to them and went on to hit a girl and a kid in the face, hurting both of them. He then goes on to call out, “I thought Baltimore is suppose to be hard?” Are you as sick of this Baltimore perception as I am?

Rob: Baltimore is hard in such a different way. Hardcore is built in the fucking suburbs. At the end of the day, it’s from the suburbs. No one, not Trapped Under Ice, not us, not any fucking band - chances are fucking Stout wasn’t from the city when they were kids, maybe one or two but I doubt it. No one is born in cities anymore. Agnostic Front or Cro Mags, those days are fucking over. No one is growing up in hard fucking cities. Growing up in New York doesn’t mean shit anymore. You grew up in Brooklyn? Big fucking deal. What, did you go to art school or something? Who cares? You grew up in Boston? No, you probably grew up in Fall River or some other shit fucking town just like every other kid who goes to hardcore shows. I live in Baltimore city. I’ve lived here since I was 19. I grew up in a shit fucking town outside of the city that had just as big a crime rate. I’ve seen friends die, I’ve seen friends go to jail, I’ve seen friends do every type of drug on the table, and my life has been affected by it, but I kept living. I have plenty of friends who were affected by it, and they’re fuck ups. That was their choice and it sucks, but is that hard living shit? Yea, it pisses me off. Especially because these kids who dance so fucking hard and are pricks aren’t even from Baltimore. They’re from like eight counties away an hour from the fucking city, who, if you got to know them, are racist and homophobic as fuck and you wouldn’t even want to talk to them after ten minutes. But it’s funny, because that’s what’s acceptable in hardcore, to be a fucking dickhead. I’ve seen a couple of waves now. I’ve seen enough waves to know that things happen that way. I know that right now TUI is the shit. That hard style, the little white kid who wishes so bad he was from the worst part of the city and had a hard life. Wants that so bad he can taste it. I know that’s popular right now, but guess what? You’re not that kid. And if your ass got dropped off in those parts of the city, you would be dead. I live in a shitty fucking neighborhood now and I wouldn’t trade it all for a free home in those parts of the city, areas that I had to work in, and drive through, and get fucked with because you know what? White people don’t live there. It’s not a stereotype or racist. Look at the percentages: Baltimore city is 63% percent black. There are territories to this city and sadly that’s how it works in most major cities. Crime and poverty are status quo if you got $10 to shell out for a show or $100 to drop on shoes… you aren’t that hard.

Phil: I also noticed that a lot of local bands get attention just from the fact that they’re from Baltimore. How do you feel about that?

Rob: I’m not going to lie, that’s pretty cool that finally happened. Boston tends to own it. New York, LA, every city is always booming. We’re still not those cities. 800 people don’t come to shows here. But, I think it’s awesome. I’m stoked that it’s like that. I wish it would have happened when some other bands were doing their thing, cause honestly I like those bands more. But that’s the way it works. I’m glad it built to this. I’m glad I’m still friends with those people. It sucks how me and Justice went; but whatever. I like the dudes from that band for the most part… Actually I don’t even know who’s in that band anymore. I love that people don’t think we’re from here. We get MA a lot. I’m just like, listen to the way I talk. Where the fuck do you think I’m from? What sucks is the reputation of being this hard city; cause its not. The fucking kids who act like that, don’t live anywhere near the city and the majority of them are scared of anyone they don’t recognize at a show.

Phil: We’re going to talk about comic book movies now because you’re a nerd just like me. We saw Wolverine together. Is that the worst comic book movie you’ve ever seen?

Rob: That I went to?

Phil: That you’ve seen in general…

Rob: I think for the amount of emphasis put on that movie, yes, maybe. Spiderman 3 is one of the worst fucking things I’ve ever seen in my life. That movie seriously made me angry. Wolverine made me angry too, but that’s actually cause I like the character in it. I grew up loving Wolverine and they also took an amazing character like Deadpool and ran him to the ground. I don’t care what anyone says, I fucking love Ryan Reynolds. He’s absolutely perfect for Deadpool, and if someone disagrees with that, they don’t know anything about Deadpool. His personality matches that dude on fucking point. Ok, so he’s attractive. Ok, so they won’t put a mask on him. At the end of the day, he’s perfect for it. All those X Men movies were fucking awful. 2 was ok. 3 was awful. Spiderman 3 was awful. Spiderman 2 I actually enjoyed. Spiderman 1 was just meh. The only thing I enjoy about Spiderman movies is Sam Raimi geeking out over stuff like the car he drives and just how he directs, which I actually really like. I really wish he would stay with horror movies and stay out of big productions because I like the hokeyness he uses. But worst ones? I’ve never seen the Hulk. Everyone I know said that is the worst one. I remember the Captain America movie when I was a kid. I remember the Hulk movie when I was a kid…

Phil: I think I’m only really including the more recent ones, when it became a very popular trend again.

Rob: Ah, ok. Well, we’re not going to count Batman and Robin, which is probably just one big gay joke. It was worse than the TV show, which was meant be hokey, and the movie wasn’t supposed to be hokey. What sucks is that I like George Clooney, but he should never play Batman.

Phil: So is Wolverine worse than Daredevil?

Rob: I didn’t see Daredevil because I do not like Ben Affleck. I think Ben Affleck is a turd. I only find him funny when he’s playing an asshole, because that’s a good character for him. It’s fitting. I like him in Kevin Smith movies because I like the majority of his movies. So, would I say Wolverine is the worst one? Mentally insulting? Yes. I felt embarrassed watching that movie. Spiderman 3, I think I didn’t take that much offense to that, cause I’m not the biggest Spiderman fan, I’m just familiar with the story; but I’m a huge Venom fan. I had individual singles for Venom. I had his little mini series. They ruined that fucking character. I will say the only thing that was positive was the Sandman’s character was perfect. Who they picked to play him, how they did the story was cool. But aside from that, it was fucking garbage.

Phil: Ok, last question. You have to answer this. I know you know the answer to this question off the tip of your tongue; you won’t even have to think about it because you’re a guy. How many girls have you had sex with? I’ve heard some ridiculous fucking numbers going up to the high sixties.

Rob: That’s funny cause it’s not that.

Phil: Really, what is it?

Rob: (laughs) Is this seriously in your interview?

Phil: Its something I’m curious about…

Rob: I’ve slept with 36 females. It is not in the 60s. That’s an insane number. (Laughs) Who the fuck said that?

Phil: I just wanted to ask because, ever since the first time I heard Ruiner, the first thing I heard about was all the women you had sex with. I heard all these straight edge dudes talk about how you weren’t really edge when you were still edge at his point because you had sex with armies of fucking women…

Rob: What the fuck does it matter? First off, let’s say I lost my virginity when I was 14, and I slept with 36 fucking girls, and every single one was a relationship, and I cared about them and had feelings for them. Would it be acceptable then?

Phil: I don’t know nor do I care. We can talk about dumb shit like this all night if given the chance. I’m sure when you were edge, you were like how I am now, where you don’t give a fuck who broke or who’s still edge.

Rob: When I broke, no one got mad. Everyone pretty much expected it to happen because I never cared. I was edge because, honestly, I spent so many years wrestling, I never got high or drank during the season and that’s how it was every year and as I finished high school I figured I didn’t really need to do it anymore so I stopped and that was that. Seven years later I decided that maybe I want to drink sometimes. So, if I want to fucking drink, I’ll drink. I don’t really fucking care. I’ve always thought of sex as a pretty fucking pointless thing. It has nothing to do with love anymore. It has nothing to do with real emotion. If two people can sit down and say they want to sleep with each other, it doesn’t need to have all the other attachment.

Phil: I don’t know Rob, I think you’re like me and yearn for the kind of sex that can be found only in romantic comedies. The type of sex where the camera is right to the side here (Rob starts laughing) with a person you’ve made an instant connection with and it fucking means something. But anyway, back on the straight edge topic. I personally think that the biggest problem with straight edge is that people become edge because of some person or some song and give edge this human face. The problem with that is, humans will undoubtedly fail you, so when the person who inspired you to take this up fuck ups or breaks or whatever, it fucks you up. Do you agree with that?

Rob: I met Sean Murphy from Verse at their second show – my old band played with them- and from that point we always kept in touch and talked to each other. We made our jokes. He was one of the people who when he heard I broke was like, I’m not surprised. I always thought that dude would never break, but I wasn’t heartbroken when I heard it. I bet he’s more chill now, I bet he’s less stressed. It made sense. That’s how some people are. A lot of people don’t want to fucking hear that. “You gave up. You’re slipping. You’re not the same person.” Some people relax; they chill the fuck out. I can name countless fucking people I know who I bet would be easier to deal with if they’d chill; maybe drank a little. I drink when I’m at a bar. I don’t drink socially. I drink one drink just to loosen up, and if that sounds pathetic, then too fucking bad, I guess I’m pathetic. I don’t care cause honestly, that’s how you feel. My life is massively structured. I work almost seven days a week at two fucking jobs most of the time and sometimes I am so fucking awkward around normal people because I can’t function in social circles because I work alone. I work with one of my band members so I’m with him every fucking day and I seriously forget how to act around normal people. I have a drink and I feel a little better. Sometimes I’m an obnoxious asshole, but you know what? When I’m sober, sometimes I’m an obnoxious asshole. I know plenty of people who like me a lot better drunk than I am sober and vice versa.

Phil: Alright, cool. That’s all I got.

Rob: How many women have you had sex with? (laughs) I can’t believe you asked that. (laughs)